## Summary - ** Foundations of Computing Systems:** - The conversation began with a discussion about the basic components or building blocks of a computing system. - There was a focus on applications as networked computer programs, which function by taking data and producing output. - **Role and Place of Bits in Computing:** - The significance of bits in computing systems was explored, questioning whether bits are the right level for structural analysis. - Bits were compared to atoms, as fundamental but not necessarily the focus for understanding larger structures like computer programs. - **Evolution of Personal Computers:** - The discussion transitioned to personal experiences with early computers, including models like the Commodore Vic20, Commodore 64, and Amiga. - This led to a nostalgic exchange about different computer models and their technological advancements. - **Digital Ontology and Complexity Levels:** - The conversation shifted to digital ontology and the progression from bits to complex systems like JPEG files. - Topics included pixel representation, color syntax, image compression, and storage of digital files. - **Character Representation in Computing:** - The discussion moved to how characters are represented in computing, touching on ASCII and Unicode systems. - This led to an exploration of how bits and bytes represent different types of data, including text and images. - **Neural Networks and Data Representation:** - Neural networks were discussed, particularly how they represent data differently compared to traditional computing models. - The conversation touched on [[the advantages]] and challenges of neural network-based representations, including issues of manipulability and approximation. - **Extended Mind Theory and Experiential Artefacts:** - [[The concept]] of the extended mind was explored, particularly in the context of how external tools and systems can be considered extensions of the human mind. - There was a focus on the phenomenology of interacting with such mind extensions and [[the distinction between]] functional and phenomenal components. - **Computer Programming Languages:** - A comparison was made between modern programming languages (like C++, Python, Java) and older ones like BASIC. - The universality of computer programming logic and the fundamental types of instructions were discussed. - **Complexity and Abstraction in Computing and AI:** - The complexity of topics like neural networks and AI models was acknowledged, with a focus on finding the right level of abstraction for understanding. - There was a discussion about how these complex systems are represented and how they differ from traditional computing models. - **Knowledge Management and Note-taking Applications:** - The use of sophisticated note-taking apps for knowledge management was discussed, highlighting how these tools can act as extensions of the mind. - The conversation touched on specific apps like Obsidian and Notion, and how they are used to organize and link information. - **Utilizing AI in Knowledge Management:** - The use of AI, particularly GPT models, in generating code and assisting with knowledge management tasks was discussed. - The conversation explored how AI can be used to create templates and structure information in note-taking applications. # Conversation Transcript Continue relax. Um, coming at the other end. Those also think about [[what you]] talking about the narrowing down and stuff. Um, And either. I think in the system you put forward, what would be sort of like the basic component or that? Sorry the basic. Building block to becoming out. What is? Because I think you think applications with sort of like the yeah, computer program or networked computer program this since the instance to have a function in t Continue relax. Um, coming at the other end. Those also think about [[what you]] talking about the narrowing down and stuff. Um, And either. I think in the system you put forward, what would be sort of like the basic component or that? Sorry the basic. Building block to becoming out. What is? Because I think you think applications with sort of like the yeah, computer program or networked computer program this since the instance to have a function in the sense that it take data and give us output okay because what would say about? So I've told a lot to jacket about this yesterday, What would you say about sort of the place of bits? In the This would be [[the structure]] you're losing. Because a bit not interesting because they're not functional yet. She is that the Yeah, please believe you algorithm. We just use bits because there we have a technology that is effective with those but you may also have Instead of two days, three days. That is since this. Just, It's 300 line. Structuring the sense of if [[the idea]] is that an artefacts is box structure and function, Beats are on [[the structure]] side and but it's a bit like atoms. So, I wonder where there's the right level of the scripture. Normally, if you want to care about [[the structure]] of a table, you have to care about this bees. These other pieces that would not having to work not without having to worry about the atomic. Strum, yeah. Okay. Even though some time, it may be that But in principle, you can be a very, very good computer. Engineer computer programmer without knowing without having any idea and what is a beat because it's Well, at the certain levels. Yes, you need those to buy. There are this compiler programs that enable. You just to translate everything in beat without caring at all about the bit things of that, that's possible. Way to go. Okay, while I'm really so basically, I was Talking about some saying, to gently see what's, okay. We're going to talk about digital, ontology, try and take me from bit to Actually bt in terms of orders of complexities, which have been playing it again. A while I'm doing that. Um, what was your first computer by the way that you have one of your kids? Yeah, my first computer a week. 20 week, 20 commodore Vic20. I've never seen it. Mine was it did you have spectrum over here sections? Now I, I was a Commodor fan. So, I took the Commodore serious 2064. And then even the 120 8. What was a failure? Because, yeah, I think was the end of commander as a producer said, because let's come, and then 64 was a great success. Oh, yeah, the classic, I think, right? People know comes 64. I had spectrum and then I had you finished a spectrum. Oh, no, What spectrum? Yeah, I know you remember all that they amiga Wellness and then I had an eager. When I said that's the 1000 minutes. Yeah. My my friends, my schoolmates. They have the most, the richest one ever already. I put to a very remember I did this, this A friend of mine was this opportunity. We were looking at that as a source of oh Extra devices. Hmm for that. I lost them during the when moving from one house to the other because I really would like to add at least in the, the big 20. I really like to understand my my original If I have no idea what day after point, I think there wasn't a box and the box when That that's interested in. It. So I had you just knowing your your interest in computing, anywhere new you'd have like a sort of a thing when you have a little tenant 10 years old. So this is one of the, one of the things I've been playing around with, you need to It easier if I make it bigger. Yeah. Okay. So This wasn't me, trying to get it to sort of take cocky's features. And talk about how we get from bits to an actual jpeg. So there's bibs to bites. To. Pixel representation. I'm basically implementations when things like colours syntax with infancy. Density here. Yeah, because you're I know this isn't the things you see. I was just sort of seeing how we could. Person. Cheap eggs in compression. Yeah. So Make this going too far into the minutiae of JPEX because talk about storage of them and stuff like that. But it would be maybe this is to unbush, but it would be interesting to go from. I mean, where would you start not invite either? You'd start out just fire on I guess, right? Yeah, I was seven big sense because these other logical units in is that, that key idea in for pictures is then the Yeah, yeah. You major, is that is a great collection points. Yeah. Then you can represent the colour points by beads bytes or even a other calls letters. Yeah, So this that's just conventional and that's just it's a matter of efficacy of the undergoing processing but the key idea. I just that. Yeah. Just like you would text, [[what matters]] if you are characters. Yeah you can add the ash go the for representing Canada, so the unicode and associate beads to characters And what characters may be the interesting place to start for ChangiBT in terms of ice suspect that Okay. You say characters that I think of just Letters and numbers. Of a included over they? Yeah, what, you're not? Yeah. This this table with all the good. Basically. All the character is whatever you can. Produced by by pressing something, on your keyboard. So let us numbers. I think I know if this, ASCI. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, this is how I know this stuff. I've been trying to get me journey to give me stuff like this, this quite difficult. So yeah, this sort of stuff, right? Yeah. That's [[the unity]] of text that just like the pixelities that you need your pictures. This is the unit if that's what I should basically. It's [[the idea]] of replace in the pixels. Yeah. Okay. So, If we're going to do catchy because he may be we'd start here but it's sort of pixels. Characters. Because you're saying the characters made up a bits And then yeah, they haven't caught it by beats. Yeah, that's yeah. The, the matter they have in [[the computer]]. But yeah, this this then Yeah. So, That's a very general idea of the stuff I've been thinking about, Sorry, I don't have here. It like said a long conversation but this stuff. Okay, so this is my yeah. Oh, there we go. Yeah. Yeah, this is exactly. It's very yeah. And then there should feel directly Yeah, this there are similar to something we discussed at the other day. Also, the national file is the most generous notion because of file is a collection of data which are in coded as bits. So what the jakepag is a file which is a series of pixels. The dog is a fire, which is a serious of character's. [[The computer]] program is a five, which is a serious of extractions. Saw that. They also [[the key difference]]. I would fight you have the category of files but then the key difference is between the daytime distraction JPEG is data, just do anything. Just with the GPA. You need that a program that you use the JPEG? Yeah, Doc 5 just data. Usually the data, the difference is also when you Around something, your computer data. Usually I'm not dangerous because they did cannot do yes. Like viruses can be in unin program. That's why the windows or a Mac are much more causes when it comes to. Put two execute. Yeah, executing a program because in that case you are five that is made of extractions. Not just what data, You say, extractions in, extractions or instructions. So you said dated we finished differentiate between data and instruction. Yeah. Date and programs are just serious. This season functions were okay. So, It's again, thinking big you've got It's not only the GPT model. But then you've also got the front end as well, so that we another program I guess, right? The program then is to take in the input. Accessible. Yeah. This drop Right. Yeah. All the web page, I guess, right? Would be there. Yeah. But that would be a program and a webpage will be a program. That's because it's interactive I guess so it is a program. And, Some. I think it's always a browser because the wet you go to the weapon, the web page. You have to go to the true. The browser right though? Some some according races, and Yeah, but, you know, since this client server model, so the it's a distributed program Now here, which is Involves both. The client side, the saw the user interface and server size, or the charge GPT's core programs, doing the calculations and give you the basically, the, the client is a bit like the keyboard and the screen, okay? Just forget getting inputs and visualising outputs. The core job is that number of the seven, okay? So if these some slightly based except for me to clarify this things and because I have by the reason I see about computers is because my last time, I programmed, a computer was with the basic on the spectrum. So that's my only knowledge of computer languages of my first computer language. Up. Kind of times it, oh, you didn't and the idea at the logical level, the more recent computer languages like C++ or Python or Java? It's the same structure as basic. Yeah, but there is similar tool and called the bone bommyocoupin during let alice that Whatever computer program can be translated into four kinds of destruction. If repeat I saw that area in the basically already had this. Yeah, things, but So, So one thing I'm thinking, always if we sort of think about this journey from, A bit to also, if that's a character to check in BTs, When one and wondering, sort of, where would sort of stage of stages would be useful when trying to Make a A couple poses what sort of representation it is. As well. Yeah. Because here the other problem may be neurone networks. That's just what? Yeah, because I just saw new on networks because these are I think this sort of representation that are used By JPD and these are very difficult because aren't they? Do not correspond to the way in which we wind, the other representation, the standard representational, using computer programs correspond to to our representations. Of instance, the deery is just a least of the data, just a bit, like an Excel, or the matrics is just greed. So we have a grass bone, This because they are similar to two things. We use also on paper. Yeah. In the notion of bitmap. He's agreed of peaks. Yeah, it's a chest board. So we can add analogies that enable us to see in which way these things are represented. But when it comes to to this neural networks, It just war it's works but decided see this is easy. Yeah. It's this small sequence each as a entries into young. Kids are collectionism mean anything. They just waiting of. Yeah. Some. Depending, Us. What? I I know about this judgement. What I can sense my tuition. Yeah. Is that they they represent of these data the from the internet by means of deputy guy network structure. Whoa. Why in the internet? The at least in the normal website You can just address this address this. Yeah balls. That associate Recipes to to pages, which are list of Character. Why the in this representation by ChachiPT they put all the extinct into this neural network. They translate in a sense and this translation Seems to have. This is where I think the bloodiness. Yeah, it has another band that which is manipulability So you can extract things in creating new things in a much more effective way than with the, with the, just the, the engine and the website. Back together and you lose information. You just have more than didn't basically not more than in engineering. Is the model is Representation that has an advantage of course and the benefited The cost is approximation and the benefit is manipulation Got a well, that's nice within that. That's really the one that the first thing they say in engineering classes. We need models because okay if we just we cannot just ever one to one representation of reality. So more models are simplification of reality but simply face. Simplifying things is a cost because you are not precise, but this is also on advantage because you can manually play. And yeah. Experiment. Um, So, yeah, now you said that seems right to start thinking harder about the neural network stuff. I guess the danger of this practically, It's such a complicated topic, there's a danger of just falling into the Yeah, let's see. The right level of abstraction. Yeah. Mmm. So it might I might start thinking about that. Now, as well, I might start trying to learn a bit more about like I've got, you know, I've got sort of undergraduated connectionism. Under my belt, but I should probably advanced my understanding of you will never works is yes to do. Here. And we may also ask my trailer or I was gonna say, maybe it's just these things and there are some But yeah, I think that that's a way of trying to unpack analyse this national of blurry Japan because it's acting. The reason why it is blurring. The is blood in the seems to depends on the fact that so represent. That should be no networks. Yeah. And then the interesting way about in the ways that it is blurred as well. So, Exactly what we mean by blurring is So we blurring this in a picture means, sort of In determinacy, I guess into where things are or the features things have. So I guess, yeah, the blue is. You could also maybe try and do with You see it's not the same as indeterminancy, is it. I don't know. You just me issue and just know you say that. Be is three point for 14. This is not many people are getting the others but sad photo to make a collation. So your proximate you simplify something like this in this bloodnesses. Yeah. Because, I agree with you that. Going into covidiology is probably not a good idea to go see much into the stuff. I just, I do like The way he's giving you a talking to understand all types of representation. You think of anyone else would be doing that? Doesn't have to be in terms of picture perception, but just didn't Of representations stuff. Mmm types of represent. I mean, I can do some research myself but And this paper by all can and representational java. The positional genre. Yeah, this is my favourite. You generally uses that it start from Start from that in. Good man, The open a combined them, but I think what is good in just things? It's comes from an old land. What this black come from movement here. You don't say, Who said in English or Jordan age? Oh yeah. No. You hope somebody like that. Yeah, I think you. It's also because he was interesting. That is processes. Very personal also quite inside in a artificial intention. Oh, so you use then John just used two correctly, organ on the arguement that there are three representational. Genre Two are the Twitter traditions of pictures versus language, but they think there is a third one, which is a connectionism. And so these may be high for us because yeah, he said the heightliner says are in representation was runner. He's sorry, I was in this is a paper on the paper. This is the one. You mean where that idea is? Yeah, whatever. Maybe this is also interesting. Like yeah I'll just say this. I can send us a little bit. Of just a paper. Yeah, well maybe because I yeah yesterday I was uncertain whether to choose these or the or the Kriguez for the next session and that at the end, I selected the cricket because I think it's what's easier for the students. I think it might have been quite hard yesterday, the coffee. Yeah, I see very Yeah, yeah, said and what is the Faces face expressions. And I can just, So, So yeah, that's the paper talk about. Yeah, I might just, but yeah, if you can find it, I can find. I have a mountain, some fold and my computer. Yeah, because that koviki when I've never read, actually, in that sounds interesting, It sounds interesting to considerate to muchello was saying, yeah, like it's a great paper. One of my favourite papers. Oh wow. Efficient a little bit. If that's interesting. So I'm looking at the second one now as well. So, because we won't have, I didn't know that that convocates. So this is a sort of A collection of stays in owner of boxes in dialogue with her. Yeah, it's a diameter metaphoric dialogue idea. I don't think it's going to be One of vents is it is volunteer literal dialogue between. Feeling flips and somebody else, like I'm blue. For the Okay, I might try to look that up and I'll stick that in the I think this can be at for us, because it's, it's a guy who or reflected a lot about the representations and also, within our legend companies about the computer and yeah, Normally, some cooling. Okay. Well, like gives me the next step to go, If you look at the time, it's fully seven. Still under something many years. I had a different thing to talk about, just an idea at today. If you have time. Yeah yeah. Um so go back to sort of experiential artefacts Project. So I was thinking about Um, I just about the extended minds. Okay, so Modern and less modern version of the extended mind. And there's, if you think about just the Otto's notebook thing, part of the intuition there is that it's part of his mind because it's sort of easily continually easily. Looks. Accessed, okay. I'm wondering if anyone in that literature is written about. Of the phenomenology of. An interacting with your mind extensions all lack there off. So I was what I'm not saying, I'd buy the extended mind idea, but maybe there's a way of splitting on a fact since the ones that we're not supposed to notice. Versus the ones, we are supposed to notice and maybe the ones were not supposed to know this. Correspond to the things that intuitively people. Would think sort of a quite amenable to the extended mind. Okay, cool. I said because it's the idea. Is that usually Meant states have to components, a functional components, and phenomenal, components and interested. I have now. It's yeah. And the Martian fear, the final component is escaping. Yes. Prompting and escape behaviour. But the, it's not just that, it's also. The, what is like to appear the the, and the feeling it's component. And, yeah, the people who, who care about the standard mind care more about the functional component. Yeah. But maybe also the phenomenal component Is. It was something, these column column beti. Columbus. Yeah. So Italian the way is an international working as I think he has a position in the UK Java. Maybe try. Okay. Posters That's not it. Oh yeah, we search it. Yeah, you want to be Okay. And I think it's how I just arguement that I read something recently by air because we worked on this effective artefacts things and so should there is a sense in which If the idea is that the extended thing is a sort of Manchester state, Hmm. It's clear that they focus on the functional component because it will be our it seems hard to say that. They're not book can fulfil a function. About. It, seems very awkward to say that the north to book is feeling something. It's time now. He okay, yeah. Now I get what you saying. Yeah, it's not the sort of capable Let's repent psychist. It's not the sort of thing capable of. Yeah. Helping to realise a mental state effort. That's not all state, like, yeah. But this combati and I'm sure I think it's right. I read this somewhere. Sounds from what you're saying these publications sound. Like, yeah, to sound share you that the mental that the proper way of reading. The extended mind thesis is not that the extension, Up, it's a meant to stay tuning. Its own, in a sense is just contributing to a mentor's state which may also be implemented in part of the brain. So it's just, it's not the only the mind, which is a standard, but it's also the, the particular mentor state, which is extended in the sense that he has. It has a constituting part outside. Yeah. But and so these date, you can also have a phenomenal component because it's actually components to be implemented in the brain. But this okay, because they extended this day is standing by standards day. So the extended state is not all in the north book is part in the notebook and parties in the mind. So maybe the functional part is in the notebook, but the phenomenal parts remain amazing to mind. Yeah, but I think that the debate is Born, and And the trying to do to using, maybe this is a supreme, is because all the woman is on the cannot be, fair, phenomenal component, because there is not phenomenology of being cannot book, but when we use this organisational is distributed so that the red element Out and you know, is easy. And so what is like to do to remember through or notable, it's just like remembering Or there is something special and there seems to be completely special. That's interesting. I'm going to before you go very quick and show you my inspiration for this. Yeah. So If you really special knowledge management. What's that? Okay, I'll take this is a basically this is a very sophisticated note taking out. Um, which I don't know how to use it because it's so complex and so customisable. The basically, the idea is you don't have folders, you have constant just sort of Um, big long list of notebooks, sorry notes, which are Connected to each other. So, if we go to the Okay, so then you put. So basically the idea was basically, you're meant to sort of Put all of the things that you might forget into. Here's a bit. The idea is, um, it's called a second break and was interesting, is it? Because people are very this, a lot of nerds on YouTube about this. But they actually do mention and declerc occasionally. So the idea is really taken from the extended mindset And so, and I've been trying to get good at this and I get in better. I'm thinking farther. I mean, it's it's like, What's called it Drake for seeing? Skilful coping something greasy is. It's kind of invisible. So what I think they need to find information about X. It's now very sort of, you know, I don't think about going. So it's, it's a map, right? So it's never getting something, which you can put these. It's sort of like an agenda, but it is. It's like one no, no notable Certainly. It's like another consterero. It's basically. So, it's trying to sort of But they would say what we're trying to do notebooks, but we're trying to use all the stuff we know about how the mind works about how information theory works. We're trying to play it to this thing, okay? Interesting, but isn't what struck me though? Is the phenomenology right now is it slowly fading away as I gain better and now, and I think, well, I need to remember what I need to speak to Enrique about, Okay you send me the link, I tried to really maybe start using it, maybe at it because I am my way of all you have shaking not why I use a lot of paper. But with the computer also with the phone, I now I stopped using this and I am more and more up to with that is And, My own ascending WhatsApp message to yourself. Yeah. And maybe this may maybe sort of more developed version of this The learning clip for this is quite steep. Okay, this is I've been learning this since Christmas. Basically, I was miserable at home and Christmas and I decided to learn this. There's another one, which maybe you would, like, wish I'll send you as well, could notion. Like a notion of things have been more straightforward to get started, but he's also much more to do with them folders. Basically, It's a much more felt. This one is supposed to be deliberately away from fail. This is about links, and hashtags, and this sort of stuff. But you've mentioned to me before you prefer like a, your mind operating folders, I'll send you the link of both and if you want to It, but they're both quite deep. You can spend a lot of time. And there's a lot of nerds on YouTube, telling you exactly how to get a entry level. And that has been. No notion is not, so not so hard. But you still need to spend some time getting going. Oh, and very lasting worship. Discovered about this as well is because this is always from in markdown. Okay? Because you can do templates as well and say, if I press this button you're going to I've discovered that. Time GPT. Has the can give me mark our code. So, if you go, World. This one. Here you see. So I can say things like this is. What I'm doing here. Oh yeah. I wanted to say, give me a template so that everything I've tagged with the word. With a hashtag isn't a chronological list so I can look at everything that and it gives you and then I can just copy that and paste that into Obsidian. Okay, so you use this a bit like what you are doing with with the majority. So using a GPT to generate to. Yeah. I mean I'm more specific here. Getting with midgenial say, I will vaguely this and it'll give me something With this. I say one, I want code that does this this. And instead of having to really learn marked down, better than do, you can just tell it to give you that impressive place or just using judgy to make HDMI called the to make a website? Yep, exactly this. Yeah. Good. Anyway, so not this interesting and and then the comfort inside. I brought again you the other these appear they say team praying Gray said I never return. These are just a few days but now like in May I have to do something that reminds us to do that. What is look is not the same this morning. Maybe I think it's probably at home frantically finishing his paper to send us Right. Because he said he said it to us at 12 and it is now Okay.he sense that it take data and give us output okay because what would say about? So I've told a lot to jacket about this yesterday, What would you say about sort of the place of bits? In the This would be the structure you're losing. Because a bit not interesting because they're not functional yet. She is that the Yeah, please believe you algorithm. We just use bits because there we have a technology that is effective with those but you may also have Instead of two days, three days. That is since this. Just, It's 300 line. Structuring the sense of if the idea is that an artefacts is box structure and function, Beats are on the structure side and but it's a bit like atoms. So, I wonder where there's the right level of the scripture. Normally, if you want to care about the structure of a table, you have to care about this bees. These other pieces that would not having to work not without having to worry about the atomic. Strum, yeah. Okay. Even though some time, it may be that But in principle, you can be a very, very good computer. Engineer computer programmer without knowing without having any idea and what is a beat because it's Well, at the certain levels. Yes, you need those to buy. There are this compiler programs that enable. You just to translate everything in beat without caring at all about the bit things of that, that's possible. Way to go. Okay, while I'm really so basically, I was Talking about some saying, to gently see what's, okay. We're going to talk about digital, ontology, try and take me from bit to Actually bt in terms of orders of complexities, which have been playing it again. A while I'm doing that. Um, what was your first computer by the way that you have one of your kids? Yeah, my first computer a week. 20 week, 20 commodore Vic20. I've never seen it. Mine was it did you have spectrum over here sections? Now I, I was a Commodor fan. So, I took the Commodore serious 2064. And then even the 120 8. What was a failure? Because, yeah, I think was the end of commander as a producer said, because let's come, and then 64 was a great success. Oh, yeah, the classic, I think, right? People know comes 64. I had spectrum and then I had you finished a spectrum. Oh, no, What spectrum? Yeah, I know you remember all that they amiga Wellness and then I had an eager. When I said that's the 1000 minutes. Yeah. My my friends, my schoolmates. They have the most, the richest one ever already. I put to a very remember I did this, this A friend of mine was this opportunity. We were looking at that as a source of oh Extra devices. Hmm for that. I lost them during the when moving from one house to the other because I really would like to add at least in the, the big 20. I really like to understand my my original If I have no idea what day after point, I think there wasn't a box and the box when That that's interested in. It. So I had you just knowing your your interest in computing, anywhere new you'd have like a sort of a thing when you have a little tenant 10 years old. So this is one of the, one of the things I've been playing around with, you need to It easier if I make it bigger. Yeah. Okay. So This wasn't me, trying to get it to sort of take cocky's features. And talk about how we get from bits to an actual jpeg. So there's bibs to bites. To. Pixel representation. I'm basically implementations when things like colours syntax with infancy. Density here. Yeah, because you're I know this isn't the things you see. I was just sort of seeing how we could. Person. Cheap eggs in compression. Yeah. So Make this going too far into the minutiae of JPEX because talk about storage of them and stuff like that. But it would be maybe this is to unbush, but it would be interesting to go from. I mean, where would you start not invite either? You'd start out just fire on I guess, right? Yeah, I was seven big sense because these other logical units in is that, that key idea in for pictures is then the Yeah, yeah. You major, is that is a great collection points. Yeah. Then you can represent the colour points by beads bytes or even a other calls letters. Yeah, So this that's just conventional and that's just it's a matter of efficacy of the undergoing processing but the key idea. I just that. Yeah. Just like you would text, what matters if you are characters. Yeah you can add the ash go the for representing Canada, so the unicode and associate beads to characters And what characters may be the interesting place to start for ChangiBT in terms of ice suspect that Okay. You say characters that I think of just Letters and numbers. Of a included over they? Yeah, what, you're not? Yeah. This this table with all the good. Basically. All the character is whatever you can. Produced by by pressing something, on your keyboard. So let us numbers. I think I know if this, ASCI. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, this is how I know this stuff. I've been trying to get me journey to give me stuff like this, this quite difficult. So yeah, this sort of stuff, right? Yeah. That's the unity of text that just like the pixelities that you need your pictures. This is the unit if that's what I should basically. It's the idea of replace in the pixels. Yeah. Okay. So, If we're going to do catchy because he may be we'd start here but it's sort of pixels. Characters. Because you're saying the characters made up a bits And then yeah, they haven't caught it by beats. Yeah, that's yeah. The, the matter they have in the computer. But yeah, this this then Yeah. So, That's a very general idea of the stuff I've been thinking about, Sorry, I don't have here. It like said a long conversation but this stuff. Okay, so this is my yeah. Oh, there we go. Yeah. Yeah, this is exactly. It's very yeah. And then there should feel directly Yeah, this there are similar to something we discussed at the other day. Also, the national file is the most generous notion because of file is a collection of data which are in coded as bits. So what the jakepag is a file which is a series of pixels. The dog is a fire, which is a serious of character's. The computer program is a five, which is a serious of extractions. Saw that. They also the key difference. I would fight you have the category of files but then the key difference is between the daytime distraction JPEG is data, just do anything. Just with the GPA. You need that a program that you use the JPEG? Yeah, Doc 5 just data. Usually the data, the difference is also when you Around something, your computer data. Usually I'm not dangerous because they did cannot do yes. Like viruses can be in unin program. That's why the windows or a Mac are much more causes when it comes to. Put two execute. Yeah, executing a program because in that case you are five that is made of extractions. Not just what data, You say, extractions in, extractions or instructions. So you said dated we finished differentiate between data and instruction. Yeah. Date and programs are just serious. This season functions were okay. So, It's again, thinking big you've got It's not only the GPT model. But then you've also got the front end as well, so that we another program I guess, right? The program then is to take in the input. Accessible. Yeah. This drop Right. Yeah. All the web page, I guess, right? Would be there. Yeah. But that would be a program and a webpage will be a program. That's because it's interactive I guess so it is a program. And, Some. I think it's always a browser because the wet you go to the weapon, the web page. You have to go to the true. The browser right though? Some some according races, and Yeah, but, you know, since this client server model, so the it's a distributed program Now here, which is Involves both. The client side, the saw the user interface and server size, or the charge GPT's core programs, doing the calculations and give you the basically, the, the client is a bit like the keyboard and the screen, okay? Just forget getting inputs and visualising outputs. The core job is that number of the seven, okay? So if these some slightly based except for me to clarify this things and because I have by the reason I see about computers is because my last time, I programmed, a computer was with the basic on the spectrum. So that's my only knowledge of computer languages of my first computer language. Up. Kind of times it, oh, you didn't and the idea at the logical level, the more recent computer languages like C++ or Python or Java? It's the same structure as basic. Yeah, but there is similar tool and called the bone bommyocoupin during let alice that Whatever computer program can be translated into four kinds of destruction. If repeat I saw that area in the basically already had this. Yeah, things, but So, So one thing I'm thinking, always if we sort of think about this journey from, A bit to also, if that's a character to check in BTs, When one and wondering, sort of, where would sort of stage of stages would be useful when trying to Make a A couple poses what sort of representation it is. As well. Yeah. Because here the other problem may be neurone networks. That's just what? Yeah, because I just saw new on networks because these are I think this sort of representation that are used By JPD and these are very difficult because aren't they? Do not correspond to the way in which we wind, the other representation, the standard representational, using computer programs correspond to to our representations. Of instance, the deery is just a least of the data, just a bit, like an Excel, or the matrics is just greed. So we have a grass bone, This because they are similar to two things. We use also on paper. Yeah. In the notion of bitmap. He's agreed of peaks. Yeah, it's a chest board. So we can add analogies that enable us to see in which way these things are represented. But when it comes to to this neural networks, It just war it's works but decided see this is easy. Yeah. It's this small sequence each as a entries into young. Kids are collectionism mean anything. They just waiting of. Yeah. Some. Depending, Us. What? I I know about this judgement. What I can sense my tuition. Yeah. Is that they they represent of these data the from the internet by means of deputy guy network structure. Whoa. Why in the internet? The at least in the normal website You can just address this address this. Yeah balls. That associate Recipes to to pages, which are list of Character. Why the in this representation by ChachiPT they put all the extinct into this neural network. They translate in a sense and this translation Seems to have. This is where I think the bloodiness. Yeah, it has another band that which is manipulability So you can extract things in creating new things in a much more effective way than with the, with the, just the, the engine and the website. Back together and you lose information. You just have more than didn't basically not more than in engineering. Is the model is Representation that has an advantage of course and the benefited The cost is approximation and the benefit is manipulation Got a well, that's nice within that. That's really the one that the first thing they say in engineering classes. We need models because okay if we just we cannot just ever one to one representation of reality. So more models are simplification of reality but simply face. Simplifying things is a cost because you are not precise, but this is also on advantage because you can manually play. And yeah. Experiment. Um, So, yeah, now you said that seems right to start thinking harder about the neural network stuff. I guess the danger of this practically, It's such a complicated topic, there's a danger of just falling into the Yeah, let's see. The right level of abstraction. Yeah. Mmm. So it might I might start thinking about that. Now, as well, I might start trying to learn a bit more about like I've got, you know, I've got sort of undergraduated connectionism. Under my belt, but I should probably advanced my understanding of you will never works is yes to do. Here. And we may also ask my trailer or I was gonna say, maybe it's just these things and there are some But yeah, I think that that's a way of trying to unpack analyse this national of blurry Japan because it's acting. The reason why it is blurring. The is blood in the seems to depends on the fact that so represent. That should be no networks. Yeah. And then the interesting way about in the ways that it is blurred as well. So, Exactly what we mean by blurring is So we blurring this in a picture means, sort of In determinacy, I guess into where things are or the features things have. So I guess, yeah, the blue is. You could also maybe try and do with You see it's not the same as indeterminancy, is it. I don't know. You just me issue and just know you say that. Be is three point for 14. This is not many people are getting the others but sad photo to make a collation. So your proximate you simplify something like this in this bloodnesses. Yeah. Because, I agree with you that. Going into covidiology is probably not a good idea to go see much into the stuff. I just, I do like The way he's giving you a talking to understand all types of representation. You think of anyone else would be doing that? Doesn't have to be in terms of picture perception, but just didn't Of representations stuff. Mmm types of represent. I mean, I can do some research myself but And this paper by all can and representational java. The positional genre. Yeah, this is my favourite. You generally uses that it start from Start from that in. Good man, The open a combined them, but I think what is good in just things? It's comes from an old land. What this black come from movement here. You don't say, Who said in English or Jordan age? Oh yeah. No. You hope somebody like that. Yeah, I think you. It's also because he was interesting. That is processes. Very personal also quite inside in a artificial intention. Oh, so you use then John just used two correctly, organ on the arguement that there are three representational. Genre Two are the Twitter traditions of pictures versus language, but they think there is a third one, which is a connectionism. And so these may be high for us because yeah, he said the heightliner says are in representation was runner. He's sorry, I was in this is a paper on the paper. This is the one. You mean where that idea is? Yeah, whatever. Maybe this is also interesting. Like yeah I'll just say this. I can send us a little bit. Of just a paper. Yeah, well maybe because I yeah yesterday I was uncertain whether to choose these or the or the Kriguez for the next session and that at the end, I selected the cricket because I think it's what's easier for the students. I think it might have been quite hard yesterday, the coffee. Yeah, I see very Yeah, yeah, said and what is the Faces face expressions. And I can just, So, So yeah, that's the paper talk about. Yeah, I might just, but yeah, if you can find it, I can find. I have a mountain, some fold and my computer. Yeah, because that koviki when I've never read, actually, in that sounds interesting, It sounds interesting to considerate to muchello was saying, yeah, like it's a great paper. One of my favourite papers. Oh wow. Efficient a little bit. If that's interesting. So I'm looking at the second one now as well. So, because we won't have, I didn't know that that convocates. So this is a sort of A collection of stays in owner of boxes in dialogue with her. Yeah, it's a diameter metaphoric dialogue idea. I don't think it's going to be One of vents is it is volunteer literal dialogue between. Feeling flips and somebody else, like I'm blue. For the Okay, I might try to look that up and I'll stick that in the I think this can be at for us, because it's, it's a guy who or reflected a lot about the representations and also, within our legend companies about the computer and yeah, Normally, some cooling. Okay. Well, like gives me the next step to go, If you look at the time, it's fully seven. Still under something many years. I had a different thing to talk about, just an idea at today. If you have time. Yeah yeah. Um so go back to sort of experiential artefacts Project. So I was thinking about Um, I just about the extended minds. Okay, so Modern and less modern version of the extended mind. And there's, if you think about just the Otto's notebook thing, part of the intuition there is that it's part of his mind because it's sort of easily continually easily. Looks. Accessed, okay. I'm wondering if anyone in that literature is written about. Of the phenomenology of. An interacting with your mind extensions all lack there off. So I was what I'm not saying, I'd buy the extended mind idea, but maybe there's a way of splitting on a fact since the ones that we're not supposed to notice. Versus the ones, we are supposed to notice and maybe the ones were not supposed to know this. Correspond to the things that intuitively people. Would think sort of a quite amenable to the extended mind. Okay, cool. I said because it's the idea. Is that usually Meant states have to components, a functional components, and phenomenal, components and interested. I have now. It's yeah. And the Martian fear, the final component is escaping. Yes. Prompting and escape behaviour. But the, it's not just that, it's also. The, what is like to appear the the, and the feeling it's component. And, yeah, the people who, who care about the standard mind care more about the functional component. Yeah. But maybe also the phenomenal component Is. It was something, these column column beti. Columbus. Yeah. So Italian the way is an international working as I think he has a position in the UK Java. Maybe try. Okay. Posters That's not it. Oh yeah, we search it. Yeah, you want to be Okay. And I think it's how I just arguement that I read something recently by air because we worked on this effective artefacts things and so should there is a sense in which If the idea is that the extended thing is a sort of Manchester state, Hmm. It's clear that they focus on the functional component because it will be our it seems hard to say that. They're not book can fulfil a function. About. It, seems very awkward to say that the north to book is feeling something. It's time now. He okay, yeah. Now I get what you saying. Yeah, it's not the sort of capable Let's repent psychist. It's not the sort of thing capable of. Yeah. Helping to realise a mental state effort. That's not all state, like, yeah. But this combati and I'm sure I think it's right. I read this somewhere. Sounds from what you're saying these publications sound. Like, yeah, to sound share you that the mental that the proper way of reading. The extended mind thesis is not that the extension, Up, it's a meant to stay tuning. Its own, in a sense is just contributing to a mentor's state which may also be implemented in part of the brain. So it's just, it's not the only the mind, which is a standard, but it's also the, the particular mentor state, which is extended in the sense that he has. It has a constituting part outside. Yeah. But and so these date, you can also have a phenomenal component because it's actually components to be implemented in the brain. But this okay, because they extended this day is standing by standards day. So the extended state is not all in the north book is part in the notebook and parties in the mind. So maybe the functional part is in the notebook, but the phenomenal parts remain amazing to mind. Yeah, but I think that the debate is Born, and And the trying to do to using, maybe this is a supreme, is because all the woman is on the cannot be, fair, phenomenal component, because there is not phenomenology of being cannot book, but when we use this organisational is distributed so that the red element Out and you know, is easy. And so what is like to do to remember through or notable, it's just like remembering Or there is something special and there seems to be completely special. That's interesting. I'm going to before you go very quick and show you my inspiration for this. Yeah. So If you really special knowledge management. What's that? Okay, I'll take this is a basically this is a very sophisticated note taking out. Um, which I don't know how to use it because it's so complex and so customisable. The basically, the idea is you don't have folders, you have constant just sort of Um, big long list of notebooks, sorry notes, which are Connected to each other. So, if we go to the Okay, so then you put. So basically the idea was basically, you're meant to sort of Put all of the things that you might forget into. Here's a bit. The idea is, um, it's called a second break and was interesting, is it? Because people are very this, a lot of nerds on YouTube about this. But they actually do mention and declerc occasionally. So the idea is really taken from the extended mindset And so, and I've been trying to get good at this and I get in better. I'm thinking farther. I mean, it's it's like, What's called it Drake for seeing? Skilful coping something greasy is. It's kind of invisible. So what I think they need to find information about X. It's now very sort of, you know, I don't think about going. So it's, it's a map, right? So it's never getting something, which you can put these. It's sort of like an agenda, but it is. It's like one no, no notable Certainly. It's like another consterero. It's basically. So, it's trying to sort of But they would say what we're trying to do notebooks, but we're trying to use all the stuff we know about how the mind works about how information theory works. We're trying to play it to this thing, okay? Interesting, but isn't what struck me though? Is the phenomenology right now is it slowly fading away as I gain better and now, and I think, well, I need to remember what I need to speak to Enrique about, Okay you send me the link, I tried to really maybe start using it, maybe at it because I am my way of all you have shaking not why I use a lot of paper. But with the computer also with the phone, I now I stopped using this and I am more and more up to with that is And, My own ascending WhatsApp message to yourself. Yeah. And maybe this may maybe sort of more developed version of this The learning clip for this is quite steep. Okay, this is I've been learning this since Christmas. Basically, I was miserable at home and Christmas and I decided to learn this. There's another one, which maybe you would, like, wish I'll send you as well, could notion. Like a notion of things have been more straightforward to get started, but he's also much more to do with them folders. Basically, It's a much more felt. This one is supposed to be deliberately away from fail. This is about links, and hashtags, and this sort of stuff. But you've mentioned to me before you prefer like a, your mind operating folders, I'll send you the link of both and if you want to It, but they're both quite deep. You can spend a lot of time. And there's a lot of nerds on YouTube, telling you exactly how to get a entry level. And that has been. No notion is not, so not so hard. But you still need to spend some time getting going. Oh, and very lasting worship. Discovered about this as well is because this is always from in markdown. Okay? Because you can do templates as well and say, if I press this button you're going to I've discovered that. Time GPT. Has the can give me mark our code. So, if you go, World. This one. Here you see. So I can say things like this is. What I'm doing here. Oh yeah. I wanted to say, give me a template so that everything I've tagged with the word. With a hashtag isn't a chronological list so I can look at everything that and it gives you and then I can just copy that and paste that into Obsidian. Okay, so you use this a bit like what you are doing with with the majority. So using a GPT to generate to. Yeah. I mean I'm more specific here. Getting with midgenial say, I will vaguely this and it'll give me something With this. I say one, I want code that does this this. And instead of having to really learn marked down, better than do, you can just tell it to give you that impressive place or just using judgy to make HDMI called the to make a website? Yep, exactly this. Yeah. Good. Anyway, so not this interesting and and then the comfort inside. I brought again you the other these appear they say team praying Gray said I never return. These are just a few days but now like in May I have to do something that reminds us to do that. What is look is not the same this morning. Maybe I think it's probably at home frantically finishing his paper to send us Right. Because he said he said it to us at 12 and it is now Okay.